Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. But Shatner? Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. How about something more relevant. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Excellent work. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. Thats fine. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Whether or not the suits have merit. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Asking for a friend. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. There was no holster involved. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. Too Many Accidents The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. LOL! 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. But this time, the sound bites used were different. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. Where is that defect now? I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? Fair enough. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. These officers are not gunfighters. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. He probably had a double until it was over. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. There were a lot of changes. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. No autographs, No self taken pictures. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! They suck and Im awesome!, 2. They function as commanded every time. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. He points to it in the video. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Search Texas Statutes. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. You arent a gunfighter, either. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. Wont last!. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! to docile, too subtle, to contextual. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? PDs are dropping them from contracts. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. He was told to shoot two rounds. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. U.S. lawsuits BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. . Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Grow up, you aint all that! He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. On Thursday, M.D. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. . Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. 00:03. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. They didnt have to, but did. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. It has been flawless so far. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. The new Kirk does suck. Where is this lightning striking twice? TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. The Hide Armory. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Mine is very accurate. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. JTF-2 is the only unit in. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Seems a bit apologetic to me. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Thats deflecting from the real issue. But breaking news here, skippy. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story).
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